Anyone with definitive answers on programming Wakespeed with Rec Active BMS


  • If you search my other posts, you'll see I have a camper van with a 1120 amp hour lipo4 battery system that is managed by the Rec BMS and charged via a 280x Nations alternator or Multiplus ii 3000w 120x2 inverter. I've had this setup for a few years now and one was one of the first to purchase Wakespeed's van harnesses. At that time, there wasn't a Wakespeed app and programming it was solely from dip switches or using a PC. The Wakespeed and the Rec have never worked well together when the battery is almost full, usually resulting in a contactor disconnect due to overvoltage. The Rec did enable the Wakespeed to charge the system though and I never delved into it too much as I would usually disable alternator charging when the battery was near capacity. 

     

     

    However, after recently burning out my alternator, which could've been for multiple reasons, I reinstalled a new one from Nations and also updated the firmware on the Rec 2.9.4, Wakespeed 2.5.3, and Cerbo 3.5~20(new beta victron ui is awesome by the way). Configured the Wakespeed via the app, which was new to me, and used the Rec BMS profile. Since then, I haven't been able to get the Rec to call for alternator charging consistently. I've only been testing it at various level of charge from 13.2-13.3X though.  

    Could someone clarify three points?

    1.  Connections - rec bms to cerbo ve can port and wakespeed to cerbo ve can port, all configured to 250k with terminal end connector on the wakespeed to ensure no open connections on the can system. (Tine said many people connect the rec directly to the wakespeed, but when I tried this, the wakespeed didn't pass the can data through to the cerbo when the wakespeed was off (brown wire on WS not receiving power as ignition is off)

    2. Wakespeed settings via app: I've tried the rec bms setting that defaults to "get home" alternator settings in case of bms failure with a float of 13.2, which may be contributory to the issues I am having, but this is what the app directs you to do when the WS is set to be slave to the bms. I'll have to drain down the battery a bit more and test today if the issue is the WS resorting to the "get home" protocol. Is anyone using the Wakespeed app to configure. I did have to disable the dvcc parameter as it doesn't allow you to use it if you don't have another shunt at the alternator vs mine at the battery. There was no way to enable dvcc without that. Does the alternator and bms still interact via the nmea2000 can system? Is a lack of dvcc the issue. If so, how is everyone getting around the shunt at the alternator issue vs the battery?

    3. The new Rec BMS firmware readme.txt states, "A separate BIN file for dual bus systems is no longer required, parameter MODE 1 is UV and OV, While MODE 2 is only UV controlled by the MAIN relay. So the CHARGE relay should be configured using TASKS in the WiFi." So, how do you enable parameter 1 in the wifi interface?

      



  • 1. Make a proper CaNbus network.   This means on both sides from network a  resistor.
    You installed one a the ws500, but you didn't write or you install on the REC BMS side.  Usually easiest to install a 120ohm resistor in the BD9 connector, that connects to the ABMS, CAN db9

    If the CAN bus is set correctly, the log report from WS500 shows 39,
    39 means controlled by the CAN.
    It don't show 15, 20, 22, en 30 etc
    (For more details see WS500 manual)

    I have notice that some brands RJ 45, didnt made good contact in some devices, you need to insert them, and pullout a bit to make contact.  I bought other and they are always good.

    On your picture, in Cerbo, I see a RJ45, a bit hanging, no straight inserted in the Cerbo.

     

    probelm you discribe:

    A high voltage cutoff means that your batteries are out off balance, or charge settings are too high.

    In a proper setup the enable brown wire is switch off first, after that the high voltage relay switches off.

    If it is not setup like this, it is wrong, and you have the risk to burnout the alternator.
    Review your design if it is not properly setup.

     

    2. Charge profile in ws500, like "get home" settings is not used when DVCC is set.

    Under DVCC, ws500 follow the CVL CCL that REC send to the WS500.

    See Cerbo menu, devices/WS500/parameter, to see charge instruction, CCL CVL  from the REC.

     

     

    3. with version 2.94,  You can use "MODE?" in  manual communiction, under Firmware tab, to see the actual setting from MODE

    try, address 2, and in message  try MODE ?, then Submit.

    it responce with 1 or 2.

    program with message MODE 1 or MODE 2

     

    If seperated relays, use MODE 2 and program Relay 1 for your charge bus, under Task.

    suggest settings.

    relay 1

    highest voltage

    negative with off on error

    compare value 3.65,  press submit

    Hysteris 0.15, press submit


  • Wow, Ben. This is great information and I have a db9 120 ohm resister ordered from Amazon coming tomorrow. I will also attempt to change the mode in the manual communication under the firmware tab. 

    As far as using dvcc, does that mean I have to buy another shunt as the Wakespeed only lets you select the dvcc option if you have a shunt at the battery? If so, would the shunt be for the positive or negative cable coming from the alternator? 

    Also, if I don't use the "get home" profile, which charge profile should I select on wakespeed app? It also has a  #7 #8 for a generic lithium profile. 


  • 1. 120 ohm resister has been placed on the db9 connector on the REC harness.

    2. REC BMS has been updated to MODE 2 with Ben's instructions.

    3. Additional 500 amp shunt has been placed on the + side connected to the voltage sense wires from the Wakespeed to enable DVCC. I did end up putting in the "get home" profile, which should kick in if the REC and Victron GX fail. 

    It seems to be functioning fine, but additional testing is needed. Big thanks to @Ben for his assistance with my questions. 

     

    One unexpected consequence is the GX is now displaying an error with the DC power loads. Now when I'm charging with the alternator, the DC power load displayed by the Cerbo and VRM is the actual DC power load (lights, fans, refrigerator, etc) + the power being provided by the alternator. 

    Prior to installing the dedicated shunt and configuring the wakespeed to use it, DC Power was correct. My suspicion is the CERBO is adding the alternator current to the DC power loads. Has anyone had this issue? I did see another person having the same problem last year on the Victron community forums, but no one had been able to help with the issue. 


  • @W can you post screenshot.

     

    Probably what you see is that there is no seperated widget for alternator.

     

    The DC load widget is calculated, and will show a negative value.   


  • It does have an alternator widget in the new GUI. I've switched the + and - sense wires on both the alternator and battery shunt without any changes. @Ben  

     



  • I didn't test the new Gui myself.

    Does the app show positive amps?

    Are shunt wires reversed?

    If so can be changed in the app setting also.


  • There is a few errors here.

    First, your shunt for the alternator is reversed. Swap the two wires for current sense, or reverse it in the setting.

    Second, how can the alternator charge 3500W and none of this enter the battery? 

    The WS500 sends the data correctly, but the current is not flowing tru the shunt of the battery. 

    Therefore Cerbo calculates you must have an equally large DC load. 

     

    Fix these two issues and it should read correct. 


  • Yes, it was showing the alternator with negative current as I was playing with the setting on the app trying to figure out the doubling of the dc power. Even when I correct the alternator setting physically through the sense wires or through the app, it still shows an equally large dc load canceling out the current going into the battery. 


    one variable didn't mention is that the Wakespeed sense wires/shunt is on the positive cable coming from the alternator. Not sure if that makes a difference. 


  • Just changed the alternator shunt to the negative wire from the alternator and it's still listing it as a dc load and alternator power. The original shunt with the Rec sense wires is still in place too. It has the negative bus on one side and the battery negative on the other. Surely I shouldn't remove the Rec shunt? 


  • @W the shunt from the ws500, looks like installed in the main positive from the battery!!

     

    The shunt need to be installed in the positive from alternator. (As in manual is discribed)

    In the quickstart manual you see also all info from the shunt wire, how to connect if shunt is in negative or in positive.

     



  • @Ben Nope, the new alternator shunt is on the alternator positive cable. I've also tried it on the alternator negative without success.

    The battery positive goes to a 400 amp T-fuse block, then to the system off switch, then to the Tyco contactor linking the charging bus (multiplus/nation's alternator). That contactor is connected to another Tyco contactor with my DC loads. The negative busbar for my dc loads joins the negative lynx busbar of the alternator/mutliplus for one side of the Rec shunt with the other side of the shunt connected to the negative cable of the battery. It basciallty looks like the diagram from Rec. 

     


  • As far as the resources go, I'll take another look at the links, but as far as I know, there's nothing in there specifically about the Rec and how it plays with the Wakespeed with DVCC turned on. I've only found one post on the victron community site where someone had the same issue, but no one could figure it out then either. 

    https://communityarchive.victronenergy.com/questions/191784/ws-500-dedicated-shunt-cerbo-2x-dc-power-reported.html


  • @W To move a shunt from negative to positive will not solve the problem you see.  The WS500 only monitors the shunt, it does not matter or that shunt is in negative or positive.  IF the shunt wire are not reversed, and connected correctly no reason to move the shunt.

    But if in your setup the shunt can be in the negative from alternator, that the prefered way to installed it. (some alternators, shunt can be only in the positive.)

     

    A drawing from your system would be easier to understand your setup. have shunts, all relays, and voltage sense wire, ws500 in the drawing for the full understanding, how your setup is made.

    Suggestion how it can be connected: negative battery to shunt. (on this shunt is the REC connected), There is nothing between battery negative and shunt connected.

    All system negatives are on output from this shunt.

    How is  "System monitor" in Cerbo set?  try set it to REC.

    Does it show other system monitors?

    Is it set on auto?

    (the system monitor is also used as SVS under DVCC, maybe you need to keep SVS switch off.)

    If system monitor already set at REC, I have no suggestion.  I could make a test setup later, when I have more time, to see a can simulated the behaviour you see.

     

     


  • The alternator is charging 3500W and the WS500 is seeing this correctly, and now positive reading so the shunt is also the correct direction.

    The battery is still showing 0,3A so the current from the alternator is not flowing thru shunt connected to the REC BMS. This is an installation issue, and have to be fixed by physicly installing the system correctly. 

    My best guess is you have an starter battery, and have connected minus from start and housbattery together. Then the current flow from the alternator will be bypassed arround the shunt. 

    It should be connected this way:

     


  • @Trond Thanks, Trond. I appreciate it. I do have an agm battery in the system to absorb voltage in case of a battery disconnect to protect the alternator. It is joined with the alternator positive cable, but has its negative cable joined to the chassis. Everything had been working fine for 3 years until recently when I updated all the firmwares (rec, wakespeed, Cerbo, multiples) and went down this rabbit hole with the wakespeed and DVCC. Before the cerbo showed accurate dc charging from the alternator, but without the alternator icon that was new when I downloaded the new wakespeed firmware. 

     

    You and @Ben have been very helpful. You both are incredible assets to the forum. I think I'll just go back to slaving the alternator to the Rec and forgetting about the wakespeed dedicated shunt. Sounds like it's just an added redundancy anyway. 


  • Just FYI for whoever may stumble across this post, I removed the shunt, reconfigured the wakespeed to not use DVCC, and disconnected the wakespeed sense wires and everything has returned to normal. Not sure what happened, but hopefully someone will figure it out eventually. 


  • @W the profit from DVCC is that when cells are almost full and cells have a slight imbalance, the charger start adjusting the charge to avoid one cell goes to high. 

    Much better for the cells.

    Trond and I both thinking about a install issue.

    Make a diagram from you setup, don't need a computer drawing, but just a simple drawing.

     

     


  • I have made an modified drawing from the REC BMS manual, just to show the placement of the two shunts really.  REC has to be at the battery minus, and WS500 at the Alternator plus. 

    When the Alternator is charging 3500W, the REC BMS should also see 3500W flow in to the batteries as long as there is no other load in the system.

     


  • Thank you both.@Trond Røsvik, your diagram is how I had both shunts before removing the alternator positive shunt. I had the wakespeed sense wires on the alternator shunt too.@Ben , I'll get a hand drawn diagram up here soon. I've been trying to figure out how to create the really nice looking diagrams, but have never worked with adobe illustrator or even the simplified drawjng programs before. Your advice about creating a proper canbus network with the 120 ohm resistor and Tine's recent firmware update fixed my previous issue that started this journey, which was the overcharging issue tripping the contactor disconnect whenever my battery was getting close to 100% capacity. 


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