WS-500 constantly regulates up and down.

Rick OGM Support Staff

6/4/24, 10:12 AM

Do you have any real time graphs that might help?

Is your DVCC working (WS500 LED should be orange)?

Jonny

6/4/24, 10:59 AM

The LED is orange and the DVCC is working. Attach a picture, hope it can help.

Rick OGM Support Staff

6/4/24, 11:05 AM

can you get a better pic, which shows the legend on the left so we know what the colors mean, and scaled to fill more of the screen.

Also, what is your %SoC of your cells?

Could it be that you have a cell out of balance?

Jonny

6/4/24, 11:34 AM

Now I tested with a higher current and then it is stable. As you can see, the problem occurs when the power is below approx. 50A. Values statra then to chase very much. Attach various images showing values that occur when the DVCC current is set to 25A. Can it occur due to time delays in PGN or are there conflicts only with current below 50A?

Jonny

6/4/24, 11:36 AM

SOC is 64% and cells are perfectly balanced 0.003V difference.

Rick OGM Support Staff

6/4/24, 12:14 PM

I think you may be dealing with dynamically induced cycling caused when you get acceleration pulses every time the engine fires and is most notable at lower RPM. That's a wack of amps you are putting out too, which may exacerbate the cycle at low RPMs due to possible belt stretch causing a lead/lag harmonic. I dont see RPM on your chart so I am just guessing.

If you had a high voltage cell it could have been your BMS pulling back your field via DVCC but that doesnt seem to be the case here.

That all being said, it would be great to get feedback from others too

Jonny

6/4/24, 1:58 PM

It was an interesting hypothesis. I have serpentine belts on both dynamos and there is marginal stretch. I have run the WS-500 as a master in the past and it has worked fine, but it will probably be a completely different set-up/regulation. On the test I sent a picture of, the RPM was about 1500. Tested now with 2000 rpm and it still regulates up and down, but with longer intervals. Think your theory may be relevant in further troubleshooting. The question then becomes whether there is a parameter that can be changed to compensate for this?

Balmar

Trond

6/5/24, 4:00 PM

Nice setup you have there now Jonny.

Trond from Farco here., writing from Azores.

I also see the same thing, and it happend after updating the BMS to V2.9.

Jumping from 0 to 50A up and down, but usually just for 10Min before BMS changes to float/13.5V.

After that its stable.

V2.8 was actually better in that sense, but I have not bothered to roll back to V2.8

You can give it a go if you like.

Also running WS500 at 2.5.2 etc and 400A alternator setup.

Nice to have DVCC limit capabilities from the Cerbo, that works well.

Jonny

6/6/24, 6:40 AM

Hi Trond, so nice to hear from you! I have followed you and Lars on Marinetraffic and hope it will soon be possible for me to travel too.
Have you spoken to REC about this issue? In the past, Tine has helped create test firmware with changed parameters for the BMS, which has been useful.
In my case, the problem occurs with low current <50A even if the SOC is 60% (bulk). Stable at higher current as you can see in the picture I posted earlier in this thread.

Large dynamo and DVCC are a perfect combination! I have long wanted this possibility to be able to adjust the desired effect, not just on/off or float.

Say hi to Lars and fair winds to you both up north

Trond

6/16/24, 2:18 AM

Then I suspect rhe BMS is detecting an imbalanse issue, possibly due to long cables between cells?

Monitor the high and low cell voltage from the BMS while charging at full power.

Jonny

6/16/24, 8:40 AM

@Trond Cells are perfectly balanced and copper rails between cells. Works well at power above 50A. Is in dialogue with REC, which confirms a challenge with current regulation. What I now use is voltage to regulate the effect and works very well. It also has the advantage that I get support from the dynamo immediately when consumption increases so the battery is kept in a perfectly even condition. I have Winston cells and after testing I have seen "float" voltage to 13.25v. When I want to increase charging, I simply change this in the DVCC menu on cerbo. So far this is the best option for my use. What I would like is that volts could be regulated with two decimal places in the DVCC menu. It is either 13.2v or 13.3v.

Rick OGM Support Staff

6/17/24, 8:01 AM

I have discussed this with Tine and he is tweaking the FW to see if we can help smooth out the cycling of the dynamic loads. @Trond Røsvik are you interested in testing this update?

Best,

Rick

Jonny

6/17/24, 8:52 AM

Tine sent me firmware v2_93, but I can't get DVCC to work, even after a full restart of all devices. When I go back to v2_92, DVCC works again. I have sent an email and am awaiting a reply.
Tested with DVCC and volt regulation (v2_92) and then wakspeed regulates fine even at low current.

Trond

6/18/24, 3:21 AM

We are currenty making our way back home and dont want to risk changing too much with beta software at the moment as we rely in it to work.

Besides. I do not have the problems you describe at low SOC.

Jonny

6/25/24, 9:51 AM

I have now tested a bit with REC firmware 2_92 and WS firmware 2.5.3.
Based on the analysis of data at low current <50A and it regulates up and down, I see that the RPM goes from 0 to 2300RPM (the engine is stable at RPM 2300). I therefore tried to deactivate "Adaptive ideal Pullback" and "RPM half power mode". It solved the problems almost completely. That is to say, when I use DVCC and regulate power with limit volts, it is completely stable down to just a few amps (works perfectly). When I regulate power with DVCC and limit current, it is stable down to 50a. With less power it is still unstable, but far better than when "pullback and half power mode was active" Tomorrow I will now try RPM from my engine interface and disable this in Wakspeed to see if that solves the problem.

Rick OGM Support Staff

6/25/24, 12:25 PM

Thanks for Sharing Jonny, this is great feedback.

Rick

@Tine Andrejasic

Trond

6/29/24, 10:13 AM

I use Adaptive Idle Pullback and dont have this issue.

PBF value 8 and Engine Idle 1200 RPM.

My bet is the "RPM -> half power mode" is causing problems.

Jonny

7/21/24, 5:41 AM

I have now tested charging over time and I definitely have something unstable in the system. Not sure what the cause is, but sometimes when I start the engine it regulates according to DVCC, other times without making any changes Wakespeed goes on with full power (limited to 90%) and listens neither to DVCC nor feature in (forced float).
I also see in the app under "monitor" that amps on the dynamo are missing from time to time. The fact that I did not get REC firmware v2_93 to work is probably a coincidence, as DVCC is also unstable in my network with firmware v2_92.

Under "last know fault" I also have error 42.8. In the manual it says that this is a sensor, but which sensor? For information, I have two dynamos and defined BTS as 2nd ATS. Is this bug still active or is it history?
I have log files from apps with working DVCC and non-working DVCC, but I can't find any option to attach files to the forum.
I think I have to systematically look for errors, but I'm not sure where to start. REC and Victron work stable and fine, never had problems with DVCC regulation, so it is only Wakespeed that is problematic to integrate.
Hope someone can help me on the right course, probably a minor detail.

Jonny

7/31/24, 8:52 AM

Still having the same problem with pulsed charging. Now testing with REC fw 2_53 (volt regulation) and WS fw 2.5.3.

Have deactivated RPM and now use RPM from nmea, as well as changed the feature in from forced float to half power mode, but none of the parts have solved the problem with pulsating charging.

Does anyone know why the WS500 sends out PGN electrical.batteries.0.current and electrical.batteries.0.volt? This is already in the NMEA network and is sent out by Victron (system battery). I then get two units that send the same PGN (conflict?) The logical thing would be if WS only sends out PGN related to the dynamo. See my first picture in this thread.

Pulsating charging occurs even with moderate charging, so ALT temperature, battery temperature, max volt, max current values or cell imbalance should not be the problem.
Have also tried to remove devices from the nmea network with the exception of the main battery (rec bms) in case this could create conflicts, but this does not solve the problem either.
Have also gone through all cables on WS 500 and measured resistance in nmea network (60ohm) so it is also in order.

Attach my settings on the WS500.

Dynamo:
-Alternator capacity > 500A (2x250A dynamo)
-Repurpose BTS as 2nd ATS > yes/activated
-Fixed ramp > disabled
-Sense RPM via stator wire > disabled (uses nmea RPM)
-Use RPM to select Half power mode > disabled.

System:
-Current shunt at the battery? > deactivated
-current shunt at alternator? > activated/yes
-Shunt backwards? > activated/yes
- Brand > REC
- Model > Active BMS
-Max current per BMS > 500A
-Ignored sensor: BTS sensor and stator wire.
Regulator options.
-device instance > 1
-feature-in "half power mode"
CAN Options:
-Battery ID > 1
-CAN Baud rate > 250 kbps
-Enable OSEnergy > activate/yes
-Can protocol > SMA w/Zero Output
-Enable NMEA2000 CAN system > activated/yes
-Support Victron DVCC > enabled/yes

Jonny

8/11/24, 8:16 AM

Problem solved!.
Have now solved most of the problems with regulation with good help from my supplier Trond at Farco. Pulsating regulation occurred due to NMEA conflicts, which I suspected in the first message. WS and REC BMS had the same instance ID. After I changed the instance ID to 50 on WS, it regulates according to commands from DVCC.

But I there is still a small challenge. Sometimes when I start the engine, charging goes on at full power and does not listen to DVCC. If I restart WS, everything works normally again. So far have not been able to find out why this occurs. Analysis of the LOG file from the app will probably provide an answer, but I do not have the expertise to interpret the data.